This week’s episode of Disability Bandwidth features a conversation between Nikki Nolan, Sam Proulx, and Billy Price, the Co-Founder of Billy Footwear. Billy Footwear is a shoe brand that uses universal design principles to create footwear that is accessible to people with and without disabilities. Billy himself faced mobility challenges when he became paralyzed from the chest down, which made daily tasks like putting on clothes more difficult. In this episode, the hosts explore Billy’s personal story and the innovative features of his shoes that aim to solve problems for everyone, regardless of their abilities.

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Transcript

[00:00:00] (music)

[00:00:05] Nikki Nolan: Welcome to season two at Disability Bandwidth!

[00:00:12] Sam Proulx: A show where we talk with experts in disability about their journey, life, and inspiration.

[00:00:16] Nikki Nolan: I’m Nikki Nolan.

[00:00:17] Sam Proulx: And I’m Sam Proulx.

[00:00:18] Let’s get started.

[00:00:19] Nikki Nolan: Would you mind introducing yourself?

[00:00:22] Billy Price: I am Billy Price. My pronouns are he/him. Visual description, I am a white male. I have brown hair. It’s kind of short. I guess I’m going a little bit bald in the back. Oh my gosh. I’m getting older. Blue eyes. I’m wearing a gray, kinda charcoal hoodie. With a colorful scarf that a coworker gave me from Edinburgh.

[00:00:44] Behind me, is kind of a grid wall covered in shoes. Because I’m in the shoe business.

[00:00:50] Nikki Nolan: I’m so excited to get into there.

[00:00:51] Now that we know who you are, what’s your role? What do you do?

[00:00:55] Billy Price: So, I am one of two co-founders of the company, Billy Footwear. We’re based out of Seattle, Washington, and as the name implies, we have a shoe business. What separates our brand from everybody else in the pack is that we have zippers in our shoes. And the way the shoes are configured, there’s zippers that go on the outside of the shoe and around the toe where the whole upper of the shoe can actually unzip and fold over.

[00:01:20] So you can actually drop your foot in, unobstructed. So all the shoes out there, you have to shove your foot into it. Like Nike, yeah they have a zipper in a shoe, but you still have to shove your foot in. There’s no other brand on the market that allows you to drop your foot in, like actually see the whole insole and drop it in unobstructed so you can actually lead with your heel to step into your shoe.

[00:01:37] So that’s kind of the differentiator of our brand and it’s been very disruptive in the market and it’s been really exciting.

[00:01:43] Sam Proulx: It feels like that could well be one of these solutions like the electric toothbrush that starts out in the disability community, and then people realize that it’s just a better way to do things. Is that kind of your ultimate vision?

[00:01:58] Billy Price: Well, this whole brand, like the whole premise and the importance of this design, as a wheelchair user, I broke my neck when I was a teenager.

[00:02:05] I fell out of a three story window, broke my neck, broke my back, because it was a head first fall on concrete. And, it changed my world and there were so many things I used to be able to do, I could no longer do. And on that massive list was shoes, so later in life I teamed with the buddy and we decided to do something about it.

[00:02:21] So our mission was really to make it so I could put my shoes on. It started with one pair and we made a sample and it worked beautifully. And when I tried those shoes on, I was actually 36, cause I broke my neck at 18. So literally half a lifetime later I was taking back that independence.

[00:02:38] And really the moment was so special, it was a driver to force us to want to share this with the world. So the vision, the mission and stuff like that, all of a sudden somewhat transformed going like, oh my gosh. Like, okay, now this works for me. What can we do in the mainstream space? And it wasn’t a matter like trying to make something adaptive.

[00:02:57] Something like, oh, okay, if you’re like Billy Price and you have a broken neck and you have a spinal cord injury and a quadriplegic, this is the shoe for you. I mean, that’s a true statement, but that’s a very narrow, narrow market. We wanted to cast that net as big as possible, create something that was more of an universal design that took fashion and function.

[00:03:13] It smashed it together, and just was very inclusive in nature. So the vision was to create something that works for everybody. But not denying that the functionality and the origin of the story came from an adaptive space. We just wanted to, instead of having more silos, we wanna just blow up the silos.

[00:03:31] Make something a level playing field for everybody.

[00:03:35] Sam Proulx: Yeah, and it’s an interesting balance to strike, isn’t it? Because you never want to deny disability, you wanna be true to your origin. You want to embrace your identity, but at the same time, you don’t want to restrict yourself. And have you found yourself playing with that line and how do you think about that?

[00:03:56] Billy Price: Well, that’s a great question. It’s very much a great question. So I mean just from the shoes’ perspective, if it can very much satisfy the adaptive space. But the part that really warms our heart is it’s not necessarily constrained by the adaptive space. It can be a mainstream shoot for everybody.

[00:04:12] And, I think in our mind that brings not only inclusion, but it brings equality. And, you know, there’s this image out there that floats around the internet and I only saw it recently. And it talks about, there’s three kids, one tall kid, one medium kid, and one short kid.

[00:04:27] And they’re standing in front of a fence and there’s all these boxes. And then it talks about what would be equal, what would be fair? And then what would be more equal in different situations. So if it were equal, everyone’s standing on a box. But short guys still can’t see over the fence.

[00:04:46] They’re still not tall enough. So if it’s more like equity, well the person that is the shorter, they’d be standing on more boxes so they can all see over the fence. Well, then there was another image that I saw where it just removed the fence. So they were calling that justice where it’s like, well, great, that’s the perfect picture.

[00:05:03] And that’s kind of what we were finding ourselves, that we were doing. Instead of creating these silos, here’s Billy, not being able to put his shoes on. Let’s create a widget for this type of model. Well shoot, let’s create something where it’s like just removing the fence.

[00:05:18] It’s just like everybody can even enjoy that. So when you ask that question, talk about disability, I’ve struggled with that term disability because when I broke my neck, I had a very difficult time accepting the word disability because all I knew was this life prior and I was kind of denying myself of the current situation.

[00:05:41] And it was both the driver, but it was also stubbornness. And I would say through this journey, I’ve really identified with the word disability. Because yes, I do have a disability, it’s not a restrictor. It’s more like a different ability. In my life, I would say I haven’t been held back by this wheelchair.

[00:06:03] I’ve been more empowered by this wheelchair to be able to propel me forward.

[00:06:06] Nikki Nolan: So, you’ve touched on this a little bit, Billy, but what are some of the key moments that led you to this place that you are?

[00:06:14] Billy Price: Oh boy, there’s so many real big milestones. And I would say the very, very first one that really propelled me on like more of a growth mindset, was after I broke my neck. When I was in the hospital, I was mentally struggling, like really struggling with this new world, this new life.

[00:06:38] And mentally I went to a very dark place. I was like feeding myself poisonous talk. Like it’s not worth living if you can’t walk. Because I was so fixated on the prior life that I had, which is a fierce, independent kid playing lots of sports, being good at sports, being that kid that could kick the soccer ball and win the goal, you know?

[00:06:54] And now all of a sudden being in this space where I was very dependent on others, not to say that I wouldn’t need help like prior to that, but it was just a matter of not being able to solve the problem on my own. So because of that, mentally I went to a very, very dark place and all I could think about was what I had lost.

[00:07:11] And one of the pivotal moments early on and which really formulated, what would be coming later in life was to be able to let go of what I lost and instead focus on what I still had. Part of that was simply still being alive. So like falling three stories out of a window, head first into concrete, you crunch those numbers.

[00:07:32] You could have died. So just the fact that I was still alive was a motivator to keep moving forward. So I would say that was very, very early on in my journey here, that was a real motivator, that would get me out of bed.

[00:07:49] And then the next one was seeing incremental growth over time. And it never happened as fast as one would want. It was a slow journey, but it was a matter of okay, well maybe today I can roll my wheelchair ten feet. Tomorrow, maybe I can do 20. The next day maybe 30. And incrementally over time, you start really gaining miles.

[00:08:10] Sam Proulx: How did you find the community of people with disabilities was like during this process because, first of all, hospitals, the medical system can be not great and not inspiring as you’re trying to recover. And I kind of noticed a problem sometimes that we have in the overall disability community is that those of us, like myself, for example, who were born blind, get very frustrated at somebody who say, went blind later in life and is dealing with this loss and this grief because we didn’t experience it and our lives are great.

[00:08:48] So if you say your life is not worth living, it’s like an insult to us. And I know that’s the same in the space of folks with physical disabilities, right? People who were born that way and people who acquired it later in life. There tends to be that kind of tension going on.

[00:09:04] And so I just wonder what was the support that you got during that process? Was it what you wanted? Obviously you got through it so you got what you needed, but could it have been better? What was that like for you?

[00:09:17] Billy Price: I mean, there was a lot of push-pull there. And what I mean by that is there was some mentorship, but there was also me struggling with being in denial. While I was in rehab, not the entire time, but I was struggling with being fixated on being like that miracle guy that was gonna walk out of the hospital.

[00:09:45] So when someone would roll in, in their chair, and I’d ask the question, how long have you been in a wheelchair? And they would say, two years, or five years, or 20 years or 30 years, I would see that, and mentally, internally I would say, well, that’s not gonna be me. I’m gonna walk out of this hospital.

[00:10:00] But it just didn’t work that way. I would get the nuggets from those that would come in and they’d be mentors. For example, in the hospital, the occupational therapist would say, well, now it comes time to brush your teeth, learn how to write your name.

[00:10:17] And there would be some sort of adaptive tool that one could use. And then someone would come in that had been in the game, a quadriplegic with the same functional level as myself. They would come in and say, you know what you’re gonna do? You’re gonna go to a restaurant, you’re gonna forget your gadget.

[00:10:32] That means you’re not gonna eat. You gotta figure out how to use what you have to make that work. So that type of mentorship, I would take that on. But still, internally I was kind of struggling being that guy that would just walk out. It was also the surrounding community, meaning the doctors, the physical therapists, etc. that were creating this safe culture around me that is saying, look, you have potential.

[00:10:56] Your potential isn’t dictated by whether you can walk or not. Your potential just you being you. So it was that type of safe environment that really allowed me to choose to change and make a mental shift and to see like here we go. Let’s do something with life.

[00:11:18] Sam Proulx: Yeah. But it sounds like for you, a pretty internal process. Nothing could happen until you were ready for it to happen.

[00:11:25] Billy Price: It was very internal and there were a lot of tears for sure. I was in the hospital for five and a half months, which seems like a really long time. The crazy thing was, this is 1996, so at that time, that was considered the accelerated process. Now someone with a similar injury, if they’re going to the hospital, they’re in and out of the hospital in two months, which just blows my mind. How? Considering where I was at two months.

[00:11:50] There is no way. I feel for someone that breaks their neck now to kind of wrap your arms around all that stuff in two months time. I don’t even know how they could possibly.

[00:12:00] Sam Proulx: Yeah, I mean, we have all kinds of listeners to this podcast at all different disabilities and abilities and levels and spots in our life journey. If you were talking to someone who was going through that now, who is you at 19-

[00:12:12] What would you say to them? How have you done that? That kind of mentoring thing?

[00:12:18] Billy Price: I have, I’ve been asked to go back to the hospital and talk to guys. It’s been a while since I’ve gone in but typically when I go in, I just listen. I just listen because there’s so much going on. I mean, because there’s like an internal struggle to try to comprehend and understand what happened.

[00:12:36] Let go of what had happened. That horrible, horrible question that one asked. Like, why me? This is an unanswerable question. One thing that helped me along the way was that why me question turned into why not me? It’s like, just by adding that word nodding, I’m like, well, why not me?

[00:12:51] Maybe I’m the one trying to move forward. It’s not like trying to puff yourself up. It’s just a matter of trying to build up internal confidence. But the challenge is that I need wider hallways, I need a wider bathroom and stuff like that.

[00:13:07] So to be on that very, very short period of time being an inpatient, it’s challenging to get something in order outside of the hospital for you to land next. But when I go in and talk to those guys, it’s just a matter of, I’m not really giving any sort of advice. Although I would say it really is just more like, it’s gonna take time, it’s gonna be a process.

[00:13:28] Nothing’s gonna snap as fast as you want it to be, but you just gotta keep your head in the game and just make incremental improvements. I mean, it could be like inch by inch by inch, but that does like compound over time.

[00:13:38] Sam Proulx: Yeah. It sounds like you really went on that journey of disability and it was interesting that you said at the beginning you really struggled with the word disability, right? And seeing it as shameful and as a limiter. And I think for a lot of folks, maybe even including you, even as you make progress, even as you learn to use the wheelchair, learn the techniques, learn the tips and tricks, you’re still seeing it as limiting, as bad, as negative.

[00:14:11] And so what was it that changed your perspective on disability? Because it seems like today you do embrace it as a valid part of who you are.

[00:14:20] Billy Price: Oh, absolutely. I would say this shoe journey really, really started opening my eyes, because it was just an empowering tool. I felt this transformation in me really happening over about the last ten years by embracing me and being able to say, yes, I am an individual with a disability.

[00:14:43] But I would say the person that framed it the most eloquently for me and she identified what the passion was inside of me, what my emotion was, but I was never able to put into words- her name is Emily Pryor. Emily, I hope you get to hear this. She’s a young gal out of Perth, Australia.

[00:15:00] And I was having a conversation at one time and she said that she really embraces her disability. She has cerebral palsy and she’s like, I have a disability. And, she’s a very, just an incredible, incredible young gal. And her comment was, if we were all the same, how boring would it be? So, you know, yes. It’s like having a disability, it’s almost like you’re a superhero, right? Yes, we’re different, but every single person is different. And I may have this difference on the outside, but there’s so many folks that have disabilities on the inside as well.

[00:15:34] Nobody’s perfect. That’s what makes it so beautiful. We’re all creating this colorful landscape. So, her words, I was just like, oh my gosh, Emily. That’s like the most wise thing. And how old are you? Ten years old. Wow. Thank you, Emily. This is brilliant.

[00:15:50] Sam Proulx: It seems like this idea that disability is negative, right? It has a lot to do with the external world and the way it’s often more about the way the world is, than about the way we are? I mean, it definitely seems that with shoes, the reason you couldn’t put on a shoe had more to do with the way shoes were designed than with you.

[00:16:11] Nikki Nolan: Mm-hmm.

[00:16:11] Billy Price: Yes, sir.

[00:16:12] Nikki Nolan: And now a really quick break to hear from our sponsor.

[00:16:16] Jamie: Hello, my name is Jamie. I’m a full-time screen magnification user. I’m a member of Fable’s Community of Accessibility testers. If you’re listening to this podcast, you already know how important it is to integrate the voices of people with disabilities into every aspect of your product development journey.

[00:16:34] Fable can help you do that from improving your team’s accessibility training with Fable Up, to working directly with assistive technology users. With Fable Engage, we can help you take the next step to building amazing websites and apps that are accessible and easy to use by everyone. To learn more, check out what we do at www.makeitfable.com and follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter.

[00:17:01] Nikki Nolan: And we’re back.

[00:17:03] What are some of the outcomes that you experienced when you started exploring and talking more or embracing your disability?

[00:17:09] Billy Price: Oh, wow. There’s so many places I can go there. I’m reminded of a gal, her name is Mindy Shire. And, she founded a company called Runway of Dreams. And, it’s an annual fashion show. And now there’s fashion shows all around the US. Her mission was to be able to create adaptive apparel, adaptive clothing in the mainstream.

[00:17:35] So it’s been a matter of partnering with big brands to be able to make that sort of transformation. Unbeknownst to us, we were kind of already in this swim lane, well, I guess a little bit ahead of the wave while this thing was really, really blowing up. So, when I’m talking about big changes and embracing disability, having the word disability being an empowering word instead of the opposite, it has been a real transformation for me.

[00:18:00] It’s been, boy, I mean, it’s hard to put into words. It’s been an emotional driver that just makes you wanna get out of bed each morning. You’re like, we gotta do more.

[00:18:12] Sam Proulx: Yeah, absolutely. And the thing that I’m curious about because you talked a little bit about not wanting to focus on the adaptive space, wanting to make a shoe that is different and that is mainstream and that is accepted. What has the response to that been like as you’ve been marketing?

[00:18:26] Do people get it? Or is there kind of a feeling of oh, well this is really the disabled shoe. He just doesn’t want to say that. What’s the response, what’s the market response from various communities, whether it’s fashion, or what’s it been like?

[00:18:44] Billy Price: Well, when you look at it, we actually look at the numbers, the analytics, the actual number of sales going out the door, it really is a 50-50 split. But I mean, it’s kind of hard to identify disabled, what do you call that? Where do you draw that line?

[00:19:02] We don’t typically try to do that, but we get that question a lot. Like, okay, well you bring on a new retailer or something like that. If this is a disability or is this not a disability? Like where do you put that line? But it is about 50-50. I mean, think about myself, being a parent of two kids. We have a four year old.

[00:19:18] Anything we can do to get him out the door faster is always a good thing. So having a nice easy on, easy off shoe is always good for him. That would be categorized more on the non disability side. But one thing I will say is having just a shoe that works for everybody, it’s incredible because you can get into retailers that now can potentially serve an audience that they haven’t been able to serve.

[00:19:43] So it makes good business sense, which is great for us as well because we can cast that net as big as possible to go after as big audience as possible, but to be able to make it a more inclusive environment in a storefront, as a community, as a society, we’re all better for it.

[00:20:02] It does have a functional nature, so it does get categorized as a disability, adaptive type shoe, but it’s not a space we’re constrained by.

[00:20:09] Sam Proulx: Yeah. Absolutely. I think maybe we define the term disabled narrowly because people think that it is shameful when it isn’t. For example, I bet somebody with arthritis would not call themselves disabled and yet would benefit hugely from a shoe like this.

[00:20:27] Billy Price: Yep. You are correct. Yeah. I mean we can talk for hours about that. Like how do you, and we probably would never really get to an answer, it would just be a very thorough discussion where you draw that line between what is adaptive? All of a sudden we pull back on, well shoot, we’re all people, so let’s make something that works for everybody.

[00:20:46] Sam Proulx: Yeah. I mean, should we be drawing that line at all? Maybe the starter question, right?

[00:20:51] Nikki Nolan: Yeah.

[00:20:51] Billy Price: And I don’t think we should draw the line. I think it’s just like we should accept people for who they are and make it inclusive.

[00:20:56] Nikki Nolan: I fully agree with that statement. The world I wanna live in is one that doesn’t even care if you’re disabled or non-disabled or whatever. We just create these places where everybody’s included, where everybody can participate.

[00:21:13] I’m gonna transition to the next question, what community have you discovered and created through your journey?

[00:21:20] Billy Price: It’s wild. When we first entered this space, we started with a Kickstarter campaign and tried to test the market space just to see if people would identify with what we were trying to do.

[00:21:32] We put something out there like an alternate type entry point into a shoe. And we started with two kid’s shoes, two women’s shoes and three men’s shoes and threw it out there and people really got excited about it. And I remember there was someone that reached out asking if it works for AFOs.

[00:21:49] And I had to basically press the pause button and go to Google to type in “AFO”, which is “ankle foot orthosis”, like a rigid piece of plastic. And they have a hard time shoving their foot into a shoe. And I was like, oh my gosh, you’re struggling with the same challenge.

[00:22:06] Having to actually shove your foot into a shoe. So it worked out well. And then we decided to enter into the marketplace, starting with kids and the success of that expanded to toddlers and women’s and men’s. And then all of a sudden, we had Facebook. We could use Facebook, Instagram, etc, through social channels.

[00:22:23] And then parallel to our Facebook page, we see a community page that pops up that says it was a Billy Footwear shoe swap. So somebody created their own channel and they recognized what the brand was working for. What they needed. They’re like, well shoot, maybe people could come together and start swapping shoes or a situation where, if you have different sized feet or some sort of limb difference, maybe you need to have a size eight for one and a size nine in the other.

[00:22:56] They were buying like two pairs of shoes and then they would try to swap the other pair for maybe somebody else out there that had just the inverse. And then somebody reached out to us going, well, could you sell to someone two different sized shoes? And that’s when we started our single shoe program.

[00:23:14] And when they asked the question, we said, sure, we’ll give it a shot. So that type of community, I would say, is one example. We also have a lot of collaborations going. There’s so many nonprofits out there for rare diseases that are really trying to raise awareness of what’s going on. And it’s been a real honor to be able to hear those stories and be a platform to elevate those stories so more people find out about it and then we’re working together, which generates our own little community.

[00:23:42] I guess those are two pretty big examples.

[00:23:45] Sam Proulx: Yeah, absolutely. And so you started on Kickstarter, which, you know, it seemed like it worked out great for you. It’s you and a co-founder and have you had to go through the kind of investment and raising investment and all of that? And if so, what was that experience like for you as a person with a disability getting investors on board or have you been able to kind of bootstrap it?

[00:24:12] Billy Price: We started off really bootstrapping. So when we started this baby, it was really a side hustle. Darren and I were working our full-time day jobs, and then we would do this thing on the side. We’d do it in the evenings and we’d do it on the weekends. And it just kind of grew.

[00:24:27] We did that for about three years and then it finally got to a point where we had to step away from our day jobs, like our team had kind of grown, everybody sweating for their equity. It got to the point where, this was about August of 2017, we were in Nordstrom and Zappos at that time, and then there was a viral Facebook post that really got a lot of attention.

[00:24:49] It was shared about 280,000 times in three days. And now it’s, I don’t even know, over a half million or so, but it got a lot of attention. A lot of people found out about the shoes. And it really drove the sales way up. So as individuals we just didn’t have the bandwidth to do both. We had to step away from our day jobs and do this thing full-time.

[00:25:09] So, but the thing was, our day jobs were kind of the facilitator to the financial injection and actually are kind of our own savings because it’s challenging. As a startup, it’s very difficult to go to a bank because they see it as high risk even though they may love the idea, and be very supportive of it.

[00:25:27] You just don’t have any real track record to be able to get financing, so you’re really forced to bootstrap it.

[00:25:32] Then you can only go so far, so then you have to start working to try to get some financing and funding. We were fortunate to be able to within our own network, to have friends that would be willing to loan us money, or you’d have someone that you grow the business enough, whether it be some potential where you can actually sell off some equity and then you kind of grow yourself to a point where you can actually go out and start getting traditional loans.

[00:25:53] We were fortunate to get a small business loan later on, but that happened just this last year. So we’ve been working on this thing for seven years now, and it took all that time to finally be able to get a loan. So a lot of sweat and blood and tears to be able to get to that point.

[00:26:08] Sam Proulx: Yeah. I mean, do you think that was just because you’re a startup and startups are sort of a risky venture? Or was there maybe doubt like, oh, well, a disability product, will this make money? Will this go anywhere?

[00:26:21] Billy Price: It was all related to being a startup. It’s just the way it is with the business. As far as the business, we definitely had the track record. I mean we were in Nordstrom, Marin, Zappos, we were in Kohl’s. Like these are very, very high visibility, you know, tried and true businesses. We had our own e-commerce sales as well.

[00:26:39] It’s just the nature of a startup. It’s just tough. It’s just tough out there to start a business. Period.

[00:26:45] Sam Proulx: Of course the other thing that we all hear about every day on the news when it comes to clothing, shoes, fashion, any of that is copycats, right. People taking the thing and selling a knockoff on Amazon. Have you had that happen?

[00:27:00] And if so, what do you think about that?

[00:27:01] Billy Price: We have seen other styles out there that have kind of duplicated what we’ve done. Not in the States. It’s been more international. We’ve seen them pop up every once in a while, but oftentimes when that happens, it’s such a small run that the price point is significantly high, and then also the quality isn’t there.

[00:27:22] So when you see it, you’re like, okay, I see what they’re trying to do. They’re trying to match what we’re doing. But then you look at the actual price point. The market’s going to dictate who you go to. You’re gonna look at our brand and be like, okay, well that’s a competitive price where I would pay for a regular pair of shoes, or there’s this other one I’ve never heard of that’s like five times more expensive.

[00:27:45] It hasn’t been a problem, I should say.

[00:27:50] Sam Proulx: Yeah. And so it sounds like you’re not too worried, right?

[00:27:55] Billy Price: Well, I mean you gotta kind of be.

[00:27:56] Sam Proulx: More people have access to the thing, right?

[00:27:57] Billy Price: Yeah, as a business owner, you gotta keep your eye on what’s going on out there. But, the big thing is on our side, it’s a matter of creating brand awareness. We need to be able to be very proactive to be able to get the brand out there.

[00:28:12] And the messaging, the mission, the statement, just the branding, the functionality, the success stories of the customer. Our marketing is more like, we’re not necessarily gonna tell our story. We’re gonna tell the customer story. Tell us how you do it. All of a sudden you get this feedback saying, oh my gosh, I’ve experienced this transformational deal where my child was never able to put their shoes on.

[00:28:35] Now they can. Or, we’ve searched long and hard to find some sort of shoe that works for whatever sort of situation. And now we’ve had this success story. That’s the stuff we gotta celebrate. It’s an authentic win.

[00:28:51] Sam Proulx: Absolutely. Although it does make me curious. Full disclosure, I work at an accessibility company, Fable, they sponsor this podcast and one of the interesting things about being in this space, whether it’s directly or tangentially, whether you’re in this space in a wider space like you are, is getting the word out there, right?

[00:29:13] Because people with disabilities have so much stuff. It was interesting you were talking about in the hospital, right? They’re giving you all these gadgets. There are so many things marketed at you. And then there’s also so many restrictions now on the internet, right? Facebook or any of the companies across the board don’t wanna let you advertise specifically to people with disabilities because, I get why, you know, that’s not great.

[00:29:39] We don’t want to be targeted specifically for ads. And so what has been your experience of getting the word out and getting people who are your customers to hear about you?

[00:29:53] Billy Price: Well, word of mouth has been really, really powerful. We have multiple channels where that word of mouth goes out. Social media for sure. You’re right, every once in a while, the whole medical stuff. I don’t quite get that whole thing of why stuff gets flagged the way that it does, and why the restrictions there.

[00:30:12] But every once in a while we do get flagged within Facebook and being quoted as a medical thing. But we’re not a medical brand, so we just challenge it and then all of a sudden our organic post goes through. I will say that we are in stores, given the functionality of the shoe and like given the success of so many customers, it is referred heavily.

[00:30:38] By, for example, an occupational therapist. If they’re looking for some sort of a functional shoe that’s easy to go over some sort of device or for someone like myself that doesn’t have very good hand dexterity or we talked about arthritis earlier.

[00:30:51] It’s just word of mouth and hearing other success stories out there, it does get through to rehab clinics. Which is really exciting. Or on the flip side, someone goes to Kohl’s and they’re like, oh my gosh. Here’s a nice easy off shoe for my kid. Or Nordstrom or Zappos or Target or QVC. Even being on QVC, every once in a while with my mug shots, on some sort of presentation on a home shopping network saying, hey, like here’s a new brand.

[00:31:19] It’s easy to step in, that type of stuff generates word of mouth. And that’s kind of how that brand awareness gets out there. I’m really intrigued about doing more podcasts. Being able to identify target audiences and just tell the story and say like, hey, Billy Footwear is out there. Maybe take a look and see what you think.

[00:31:37] Sam Proulx: Yeah, podcasts are absolutely amazing. Says a guy with a podcast.

[00:31:40] Nikki Nolan: Speaking of word of mouth, that’s how we found you- a friend recommended you. So, I’m gonna take us back, during this experience was there anything that you discovered that really surprised you?

[00:31:51] Billy Price: I think the part that, well, I used the word surreal a lot and that might be a synonym for surprise. It was more like the creation of this brand. I mean, it was just this small little idea that Darren and I were spitballing. So if I go way back, what happened was we were at a Christmas party.

[00:32:13] Darren invited me over to his house. I grew up with Darren, we’ve known each other forever. And we were just talking over a Christmas party, catching up. And, he was telling me about a shoe project that he was working on just randomly he challenged himself to be able to make a shoe.

[00:32:32] He was telling me about this, and as he was telling me this, it just got me really excited. I’m like, wow, that’s incredible. I was like, well, Darren, you know that I broke my neck, I fell out of a window and I struggled with some stuff and one of these things is shoes.

[00:32:48] I just threw an idea at him. I threw the idea of having that wraparound zipper and it was a situation he identified with and had the ability and resources to make the connections and design and make a prototype. And when he gifted it to me, it just transformed my life.

[00:33:07] And the moment was just so special. It’s like, well, let’s try to share this. We didn’t really know where this thing was gonna go. The part that I guess surprises me in such a delightful, delightful way, it started with one shoe, and just this past summer, we sold our millionth shoe. So to talk about the surprise part, to go back in time to when that conversation first happened.

[00:33:32] And then if someone were to say, all right, well stick with this, and then seven years from now, you’ll be able to have a million sales under your belt. And that’s the tip of the iceberg. At that moment in time, I think I would be very, very surprised. My jaw would hit the floor and I’d have a hard time picking it up and it just catapulted us into this world.

[00:33:57] I just have this feeling like we have an obligation to fill this gap in the marketplace and it’s been such an honor to do so.

[00:34:07] Sam Proulx: A million shoes, first of all, congratulations. That’s a heck of a milestone. Just getting that many of something that you made out into the world, you know, starting from a Christmas party. Drinks and conversation where all the good ideas come from.

[00:34:21] But you actually acted on it and pulled it through and made it happen despite the last two years that we’ve had. We’ve been through a pandemic. Has that, how did that affect you at all?

[00:34:34] Billy Price: Oh yeah. Yeah, where do I start? Man, the last two years that’s been a roller coaster, supply chain just went bonkers. It really did. Our business right now, I mean I’d say about 40% of our total revenue comes from our own e-commerce site. And then the remaining balance comes through wholesale.

[00:34:52] And when the pandemic hit, no one was going to the stores. So that whole channel for the most part just dried up. Because I mean, a lot of that had to do with storefronts, people going into stores and people weren’t able to go into stores. So that wholesale channel just closed.

[00:35:13] All of a sudden, they really started injecting more effort into their e-commerce channel. But still it was very problematic on our side because so many of those shoes all of a sudden were returned to us, typically because of a cold shoe, if they can’t have them in store and if they’re not set up already to be able to go through an e-commerce channel, they would just return them to us.

[00:35:36] We had to accept those. So that was very challenging on cash flow and stuff. Plus to be able to already have orders in place with the factories, to be able to have more inventory coming in. But the thing was, we were all in it together. It wasn’t just like one particular demographic or one particular country.

[00:35:56] The planet and every single person on this planet was impacted by the last four years. So we all were in it together, all struggling, trying to figure out what was gonna happen. And, we all had to come to terms and get comfortable with this new reality. So when we all came together, it became comfortable.

[00:36:14] It was interesting because the sales, just from the revenue perspective, came roaring back. So yes 2020, the early part was very challenging, but we actually met our projections in 2020 just because in the third and fourth quarter people were hungry. People were like, oh my gosh, I wanna get back out there.

[00:36:34] And then, it kind of took a dip again in 2021. Then 2022 was really difficult when it came to the supply chain part of it because there were the factories, then there was the shipping part to get from overseas that was incredibly expensive and very difficult to get on a boat.

[00:36:51] And then lastly, it was a matter of getting stuff into ports and getting stuff into warehousing. So we finally weathered all that storm, and we’re entering 2023 in a very good position to really light this place on fire.

[00:37:02] Sam Proulx: Awesome. Thanks so much for being so open, as I grill you, so fascinating. I could talk about these things forever.

[00:37:12] It’s just the shoe business, something I don’t know anything about. But hey, our time is drawing to a close. Nikki, why don’t I pass it over to you to close things off for us with the last couple of questions.

[00:37:25] Nikki Nolan: Yeah. I’m really curious, like what are some small ways that people can start towards a path of inclusion access, or even furthering the rights of people with disabilities?

[00:37:35] Billy Price: You know what? I would start by just volunteering and participating. There’s so many nonprofits out there that are just doing incredible things, and inclusion doesn’t necessarily mean go feed the homeless or just work at a food bank. Just volunteer some time.

[00:37:51] A powerful organization that was near and dear to me, I did sports before I was in a wheelchair and I wanted to do sports after I was in a wheelchair. So one of those sports was skiing and I just had this sit ski and I went up and down the mountain, but it takes somewhat of a village to help me when I’m on the ski slopes.

[00:38:12] So there’s lots of volunteer organizations that help get folks out there to be able to participate in the outdoors, both as the participant, which would be the person with a disability, but also the volunteer to help facilitate that whole thing. And as a community, I mean, everyone’s having a great time.

[00:38:31] I would say that’s a great place to start. It really is. It’s a real eye-opener for sure.

[00:38:35] Sam Proulx: Yeah. I mean, it sounds like a bit of an analogy, right? But it’s so true. Do stuff and stuff will happen.

[00:38:41] Billy Price: Love that. Yeah. It’s that basic. That’s simple.

[00:38:45] Sam Proulx: Before we close this off, is there anything that you are burning to talk about or burning to tell us about or burning to say, or a point that you want to get across that we didn’t ask you before?

[00:38:57] Billy Price: There’s just so many things. There’s just so many different facets. I guess what I would say is, there’s so many moments in the hospital that I was just stuck on my own thoughts and not understanding what the next step, what the next day, what the next moment was going to be.

[00:39:15] And it really took a lot of folks to help me through that. One of the things I love to call out are the nurses, the doctors, the physical therapists, that live in somewhat of a thankless job. They have very, very difficult situations. The medical space is very, very challenging.

[00:39:37] Fingers are always pointed there. If you do something wrong, you’re totally called out. If you do something right, you’re not really thanked. I’m really indebted to the support that they gave me. They really believed in me before I believed. They saw something in me.

[00:39:56] They saw potential, they saw something that I had had before being in a wheelchair. And it was really that coaching, they weren’t my friends. They were my coach. And as a coach, they push you. And, it was that pushing that I needed to get out of my own way, to get back on track to do something bigger.

[00:40:13] So thank you.

[00:40:16] Sam Proulx: Yeah, absolutely. And the job is only getting harder and continuing to be hard with all the pandemic stuff that’s going on, isn’t it?

[00:40:24] Billy Price: Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. There’s some challenges for sure.

[00:40:29] Sam Proulx: Yeah. Some challenges, some burnout. I know folks in the profession and it’s not easy. But then it’s tough all around. Great work that they do. And I know we’re super short of time and I do wanna make sure that we get to this. Where can folks find you? What do you wanna plug? Billy’s shoes of course, you gotta tell us where we can go buy a pair.

[00:40:49] Billy Price: So our website is www.billyfootwear.com. It is a very informative site. It is an e-commerce site, you can purchase through that site. But there’s also a tab that says store locations. So when you click on that and scroll down, you’ll find there’s a world map filled with little pins all over the place.

[00:41:07] And you can see all the major retail partners that we’re at as well as all the independent stores throughout the globe. There’s the US, there’s Canada, there’s Europe, there’s Australia. So that’s a great place to go on social media. It’s all @billyfootwear on all the channels.

[00:41:20] Nikki Nolan: I have a question. What is the goat? Is it just because of Billy and there are billygoats? Tell me what this goat is.

[00:41:29] Billy Price: So the goat, that’s our logo. It’s a goat. There definitely is the play on words, billygoat. When we started the brand, we were looking at something that just embodied this attitude of tenacity, grit, determination, something that if it had a challenge, it was just gonna put its head down and blast right through it.

[00:41:49] So I think of those, the goats that are scaling the Alps that just are defying gravity, or that ram, which is the big rack on its head that’s just gonna not back down, or just the goat on the farm that’s providing like nourishment for the family. I mean, all that stuff is embodied within that logo.

[00:42:08] Sam Proulx: Yeah, absolutely. And I know there’s various organizations where you can buy a goat for families in need to support that nourishment. Ever done a partnership there? That’d be fun.

[00:42:20] Billy Price: We’ve contemplated that. We’ve actually contemplated, as a give back sort of goat program. Despite such and such, like you get a goat for some family. We’ve yet to be able to figure out how that would work. But I would say some time in our company timeline, there will be goats given somewhere.

[00:42:38] Sam Proulx: All right. The company that gives a goat, probably not your slogan.

[00:42:42] Nikki Nolan: Thank you so much for being here. I really enjoyed this conversation. This was so fun. Thanks for being open and honest and authentic, and answering all of the questions that we had let you know about and all of the random ones that we came up with on the spot.

[00:42:58] Billy Price: Well, my pleasure. I just thank you for the opportunity. It really meant a lot.

[00:43:06] Sam Proulx: Thanks for listening to Disability Bandwidth. If you liked this episode of Disability Bandwidth, please subscribe and share it with friends and family. Today’s episode was hosted by Sam Proulx and Nikki Nolan. Edited and produced by Nikki Nolan. Transcripts are written by Emma Klauber. Music is created by Efe Akeman.

[00:43:25] Special thanks to everyone at Fable who without their support, this show would not be possible. You can find out more about Disability Bandwidth on Twitter and Instagram @disabilitybandwidth, or on our website at www.disabilitybandwidth.com.

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